Curse

Free Runner · Sep 20, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

From the looks of things the Dwarves are going to be near extinction in GW2. Also the dragon Primordus is set back due to The Great Destroyers defeat. In the future we may see the Stone Dwarves returning to hunt down Primordus.

Mordakai · Sep 21, 2007, 02:34 AM // 02:34

SPOILER ALERT

according to PcGamer's Ultimate Guild Wars Guide, the Dredge take over the old Dwarf area and fight the Norn.

I'm planning on starting a whole thread to discuss the Ultimate Guide's GW2 spoilers.

Metal Herc · Sep 21, 2007, 02:54 AM // 02:54

I really didn't dig the whole transformation. So this is uspposed to be the final battle, some huge confrontation. The dwarves sacrifice themselves in this ritual and in the end, a party of 8 kill a very easy great destroyer.

I don't think enough was really explained about the Great Destroyer and The Great Dwarf in EOTN which leads me to believe that is what GW2 will be about. That or it was just a very anticlimactic ending..

I will have to pick up that Ultimate Guild Wars Guide... I am very confused/somewhat dissapointed after the ending of GW:EN.

draxynnic · Sep 21, 2007, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

IT wouldnt suprise me at all if the dragon thingwas the real destroyer, with its godlike powers (making it the counterpart of the great dwarf) and the defeat of the general it put back the destroyers plans by say around 200 years but its plan suceeded enough to begin to restore it from its eternal stone prison (since both the destroyers and dwarfs seem to now be rocked based lifeforms) The one thing i didnt understand with the end of eotn is why didnt all the dwarves get turned into Rock forms, from what i saw only the King and his men present in the chamber were actually transformed, the others remained "normal". Since dwarves already had a much longer life span than humans its highly likely these stone dwarves will still be around in Gw2 although presumably fewer in number to fight the destroyer

The transformation was through a ritual - only those dwarves that participated in the ritual get petrified. There is, however, an implication that those dwarves that didn't participate in the ritual immediately will probably do so at some stage in the future - it is, after all, a key part of their religion.

Guildmaster Cain · Sep 21, 2007, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Aye, this is explained by Ogden after the transformation cutscene, who chooses to participate in the transformation at a later stage of his life. This is because, as explained by him, the state of their mind also changes when they transform.

I agree that the Great Destroyer was very anticlimactic, not really worth being worried about all these years. Can you imagine the dwarves actually saw this being as the ultimate adversary? Not to mention the whole Great Dwarf got flushed down the drain. Apparently there is no Great Dwarf, only his weapons, the Stone Dwarves.

Sylvarians are probably totally seperate from dwarves. Somehow I expected that they would surface at the end of GWEN, but they didnt... Though there is a strange 'Tree of Life' in the new part of Maguuma Jungle, a tree planted by the peaceful centaur Ventari.

Free Runner · Sep 21, 2007, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain

I agree that the Great Destroyer was very anticlimactic, not really worth being worried about all these years. Can you imagine the dwarves actually saw this being as the ultimate adversary? Not to mention the whole Great Dwarf got flushed down the drain. Apparently there is no Great Dwarf, only his weapons, the Stone Dwarves.

With the new info on Primordus, the Great Destroyer was worth fearing. It may not of been powerful but the result of what would awaken had it been left alone would of destroyed Tyria at that point. The whole Great Dwarf thing is Nightfall all over again. When the Gods gave us a message to help instead of helping directly.

Mordakai · Sep 21, 2007, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain

Sylvarians are probably totally seperate from dwarves. Somehow I expected that they would surface at the end of GWEN, but they didnt... Though there is a strange 'Tree of Life' in the new part of Maguuma Jungle, a tree planted by the peaceful centaur Ventari.

If you're curious about the Sylvari, read my thread (or the Guide). It's all explained there. Sounds like you've already figured it out, though.

strcpy · Sep 23, 2007, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal Herc

I really didn't dig the whole transformation. So this is uspposed to be the final battle, some huge confrontation. The dwarves sacrifice themselves in this ritual and in the end, a party of 8 kill a very easy great destroyer.

This seems to be popular in RPG's - it is kinda hard to get around. The end boss pretty much has to be beatable by your party and it basically needs to be beatable by the majority that play the game. Really - we easily killed a god in under 20 minutes (many of us MUCH faster than that) that was supposed to destroy an entire planet (and by implication change *all* of reality to fit it's own vision). I find the ease of the great destroyer to be much more realistic, at least that was only one race that really feared them and The Great Dwarf isn't even one of the Gods.

I generally also assume that things are happening off scene - that if the Dwarfs had *not* undergone the transformation then we most likely would have failed. The fact that we killed Abbadon makes less sense than backed up by thousands of transformed warriors we beat a mortal being. Heck there were bosses in Nightfall that were more likely to give a party wipe than Abbadon even if they didn't take as long to kill.

But that is what is going to happen if you want a story in a game you actually have a chance to win. It's even nearly impossible to create a truly believable similar type of story in written works where you even have complete control over the characters.

There are times reading people complain about this stuff that I *really* wish they would be allowed to write the story and then see the forums pick it apart. There would be some real wounded prides out there. It's easy to say "Make it really tough to beat and yet have most be able to beat it" and another thing to actually do so. But, of course, most will think they could actually do it and will generally be indignant that this is said.

draxynnic · Sep 23, 2007, 12:01 PM // 12:01

We had help for Abaddon as well - he'd only just started to break free of his bonds. Considering that he couldn't even be targetted when he wasn't bound, I think it's safe to say that if we'd have had absolutely no chance against him before he was imprisoned.

Basically, we delivered the killing blow against a pale shadow of his former self. If we hadn't showed up, yes, he would have continued growing in power... but it is worth noting even then he never expected to actually escape his prison, but instead to pull the world into it.

Aubis · Oct 01, 2007, 09:12 PM // 21:12

I think the Dwarves were living weapons when the great destory was making trouble long ago The Great Dwarf with his army of living weapon crafted in his own likeist fought the destroyers after the battle he made his weapons flesh and blood tilt the destroyer return.

draxynnic · Oct 02, 2007, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aubis

I think the Dwarves were living weapons when the great destory was making trouble long ago The Great Dwarf with his army of living weapon crafted in his own likeist fought the destroyers after the battle he made his weapons flesh and blood tilt the destroyer return.

Makes sense, since flesh-and-blood Dwarves can reproduce and (apparently) the stone dwarves can't. The dwarves really should have thought about that before they got carried away and all turned to stone... but maybe there's a ritual somewhere that might actually turn them back.

Mordakai · Oct 02, 2007, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Makes sense, since flesh-and-blood Dwarves can reproduce and (apparently) the stone dwarves can't. The dwarves really should have thought about that before they got carried away and all turned to stone... but maybe there's a ritual somewhere that might actually turn them back.

I doubt it. I think Anet wants the Dwarves out of their mythos. After all, they seem pretty boring when compared to the Norn, Charr, Asura and Sylvari.

The fact that the Asura have become the new crafters of Tyria pretty much puts the nail in the coffin.

The Shelf · Oct 02, 2007, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

I think Anet wants the Dwarves out of their mythos.

I don't think ANet wants to boot Dwarves entirely. If that were the case, they wouldn't be in GW2 at all. I think they're just trying to make them more interesting. They were pretty boring even before the Asurans, Norn, Charr, and Sylvari became prominent. Now when you meet a dwarf in GW2, it will actually be special since they will be an endangered species. Not only that, but being living statues make them more interesting too. It suits the whole dwarf theme, but at the same time it helps set Guild Wars dwarves apart from all the rest.

Personally, I think ANet's move on the dwarves was a stroke of genius. In most fantasies, elves are the wise elusive creatures that provide players with a lot of help. ANet totally reversed that by making dwarves fill that role for GW2. At least, I'm hoping that ANet will make dwarves fill that role in GW2. They'd be silly not to.

Azrael Apollyon · Oct 02, 2007, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Yep, I think ANet are just trying to move away from the Dwarf stereotype.

Mordakai · Oct 02, 2007, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Shelf

I don't think ANet wants to boot Dwarves entirely. If that were the case, they wouldn't be in GW2 at all. I think they're just trying to make them more interesting. They were pretty boring even before the Asurans, Norn, Charr, and Sylvari became prominent. Now when you meet a dwarf in GW2, it will actually be special since they will be an endangered species. Not only that, but being living statues make them more interesting too. It suits the whole dwarf theme, but at the same time it helps set Guild Wars dwarves apart from all the rest.

Personally, I think ANet's move on the dwarves was a stroke of genius. In most fantasies, elves are the wise elusive creatures that provide players with a lot of help. ANet totally reversed that by making dwarves fill that role for GW2. At least, I'm hoping that ANet will make dwarves fill that role in GW2. They'd be silly not to.

I agree, it was a smart move. I was just replying to someone who suggested that the Stone Dwarves could return to normal... what would be the point of that?

Keep Stone Dwarves, and keep them rare, IMO.

dsnesnintendo · Oct 02, 2007, 08:03 PM // 20:03

why doesn't the great dwarf save them
or kormir save elone
or
the titans save the cha-...ow nm

The Shelf · Oct 02, 2007, 08:35 PM // 20:35

I don't know if this has been brought up before, but I'm pretty sure no one knows who the Great Dwarf really is, right? Is it possible that Droknar is the Great Dwarf? I kinda got that impression since he appears in ghost form at the end of GW:EN. I don't really know Droknar's history, so please tell me if this idea is totally off-base.

Free Runner · Oct 02, 2007, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Droknar was one of the greatest Dwarven Kings when the Deldrimor banners were united (resulting in the forge he resided in to become named Droknars Forge).

Also the statue of him in Droknars is exactly the same as the one in the Heart of the Shiverpeaks though this could just be them reusing the statue. He does seem to be pretty important amongst the Dwarves.

However the Dwarven legends say that the Great Dwarf lived in his forge now known as Anvil Rock, but Droknar was known to have lived as a King in the forge we now know as Droknars Forge. And the Great Dwarf was around in the early days of the Dwarves whereas Droknar is implied to have came much later on.

Giga Strike · Oct 02, 2007, 11:20 PM // 23:20

according to the guildwars issue of PC gamer, all of the dwarves who were not turned into stone will die out leaving a couple stone dwarves across the shiverpeaks.

draxynnic · Oct 03, 2007, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

I doubt it. I think Anet wants the Dwarves out of their mythos. After all, they seem pretty boring when compared to the Norn, Charr, Asura and Sylvari.

The fact that the Asura have become the new crafters of Tyria pretty much puts the nail in the coffin.

I didn't say that it'd be found, or that they'd use it if it was found, or that there'd be enough of them left to form a viable population if it was used.

But it would be an interesting lore point if it turned out that they were originally created as stone in the initial battle against the Great Destroyer, and then got turned to flesh and blood so they could reproduce and build up numbers until the Great Destroyer arose again in EotN.